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-   -   Paint How To: Magic Crystals (http://volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13274)

Unkl Ian October 15th, 2006 01:13 PM

Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Some of you might have seen this stuff from Alsa:
http://www.alsacorp.com/products/cry...x_prodinfo.htm

http://www.alsacorp.com/products/crystalfx/web-sml.jpg


It's a crystal solution,that you use as a water soluable mask,
to create different effects.Alsa gets $79 a quart,which is probably
enough to do a few complete cars.

If anyone is interested,I'll post a How To
that anyone can replicate at home for less than $10. :thumbsup:

Same cool effects,for less money.:dancing:

carcentric October 15th, 2006 02:09 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
Would look authentic on the Tiki Tub, if nothing else.
:hello:

Steve October 15th, 2006 02:23 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
Heck, ya got MY attention. :thumbsup:

FONZY October 15th, 2006 02:36 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
Nice paint... but it looks like somebody fucked it all up with a cheesecloth while it was still wet

*shrug*

Steve October 15th, 2006 02:47 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
I was checking out some of the other patterns as well...

I keep thinking how cool this would look (but in a deep violet) on the roof of the Merc... :chillin:


http://www.alsacorp.com/products/cry.../swirl-lrg.jpg

carcentric October 15th, 2006 02:59 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve
I was checking out some of the other patterns as well... I keep thinking how cool this would look (but in a deep violet) on the roof of the Merc... :chillin:

Like you parked under a Japanese Maple?
:Idunno:

Turbo Punk October 15th, 2006 03:44 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
That would look really cool if you masked off the car and did flames with the stuff.:thumbsup:

Tim

Steve October 15th, 2006 04:26 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by carcentric
Like you parked under a Japanese Maple?
:Idunno:

Yes. Exactly. Just like I parked under a Japanese Maple. :thumbsup:

purplemyth October 15th, 2006 04:54 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
that stuff looks really interesting, wish they had a printed catalog though, my email will overload !
I tried changing the hue of the above pattern ~~~~ red! :thumbsup:

Unkl Ian October 15th, 2006 05:01 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
More pics from the Alsa site:
http://www.alsacorp.com/products/cry...se/rg1-lrg.jpg

http://www.alsacorp.com/products/cry...se/s12-lrg.jpg

http://www.alsacorp.com/products/cry...se/s27-lrg.jpg

http://www.alsacorp.com/products/cry...se/s28-lrg.jpg

http://www.alsacorp.com/products/cry...se/s18-lrg.jpg

Unkl Ian October 15th, 2006 05:06 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
One more:
http://www.alsacorp.com/products/cry...se/s29-lrg.jpg

Here they have combined a few different materials,
Pearls,Candy,Crystals,all in one paint job.

Jon October 15th, 2006 05:06 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
If you cheack out the MSDS it states that it consist of Water, Urea, Aqua Amonia, and Neocryl. I think Neocryl is a proprietery name for some substance, but it makes you wonder what kinda effects if any that Amonia or Urea would produce.
Urea I believe, is found in Urine. I am not suggesting that somone go run out and piss on their fresh paint job or anything.

I am gonna find out what Neocryl is.

I found out it's a IsoCyanate, which is basically adhesive so it's kinda a binder of sorts thats used in some Laquer finishes to help achieve High Gloss.

So the way I think this stuff works is that it has a reaction of some sort from either the Amonia and or Urea and the Neocryl then provides adhesive properties in certain areas so that the following coat bonds while the rest is washed away.

Just thinking that some other possiblities are out there, although they have done the R&R so chances are they have already worked it out. I just find things like this kinda inspiring thats all.

Unkl Ian post away. I would love to see the home brew method. Love to see if my theory is correct or not.

Unkl Ian October 15th, 2006 05:45 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
Actually,the product works as a resist,like a mask.

The product dries,and forms into crystals.
Next you spray your second color over it,let that dry,
then rinse with water while rubbing the surface.

The cyrstals break off and wash away,taking some of the paint with it.

You end up seeing the first color where the crystal patterns formed.
In between the crystals,you see the second color.

From there,you can top coat with Candy,Pearls,etc.

Now I just have to find my camera.

danechild October 15th, 2006 06:40 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
This would look good on the inside of the roof for those not using a headliner. Actualy, it might look good on the whole inteior.

Unkl Ian October 20th, 2006 05:04 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
This is the stuff I used,you can get it at Michael's for less than $10.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0079.jpg

Unkl Ian October 20th, 2006 05:15 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
Surface needs to be clean and dry.

You MUST scuff the surface before applying the solution.
The direction of scuffing influences the pattern.
Do a few test pieces to become comfortable with the effect.

Shake well before spraying.
Spray on the solution,and let dry.

It will look something like this:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0058.jpg

Unkl Ian October 20th, 2006 05:20 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
Kind of like frost on a window.

How much solution you spray on influences the effect.
The drying rate may also influence the effect.
You will need to experiment.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0055.jpg

If you don't like the crystal pattern,wash it off with water and start again.

Unkl Ian October 20th, 2006 05:26 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
Now we dust on the first layer of color.
First choice is automotive paint,the new stuff that dries fast.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0060.jpg

I'm using cheapo flat black because it gives a good contrast with the yellow plastic,and I already had it.Any color combination will work.The crystals only serve as a water soluable mask.

Unkl Ian October 20th, 2006 05:29 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
Once the first layer of color has flashed off for a few minutes,dust on the second layer of color.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0063.jpg

Unkl Ian October 20th, 2006 05:32 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
Repeat the process until you have decent coverage.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0064.jpg

I like the look at this point,unfortunately the crystals are too fragile to be considered permanant.

Unkl Ian October 20th, 2006 05:35 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
Let that dry real well,then comes the fun part.

Rinse with running water,and scrubb with your bare hands to remove the crystals and expose the design.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0074.jpg

Unkl Ian October 20th, 2006 05:37 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0076.jpg

Unkl Ian October 20th, 2006 05:41 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
The process is probably easier on horizontal surfaces,
the solution will want to run off a vertical surface.

The stuff from Wallmart is supposed to be better for vertical surfaces.
It's a spray,that goes on thicker,and dries faster.

And I imagine you could NOT use a water based paint,
like Createx,for your top coat,since it would disolve the crystals.
Or maybe it would work if it was dusted on dry enough.

Again,you'll have to experiment.

Unkl Ian October 20th, 2006 05:43 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
There is another similar product,called Crystal Creations,
that might actually work better.
Unfortunately,I don't know where to get it,or who makes it.

----------

Any questions ?

Nick October 20th, 2006 05:54 PM

Re: Artist types: Magic Crystals ?
 
Awesome post Unk Ian :bow: To the tech bin

Unkl Ian October 20th, 2006 06:26 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
This panel was done using an older bottle of Crystal Creations,
with Purple paint on a white background.
Notice how the pattern is coarser than the ones above?

No idea if the formula is slightly different,or it's just because
the bottle has been sitting around.

More experiments to be done.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0081.jpg

Unkl Ian October 20th, 2006 06:30 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0080.jpg

Special thanks to Alan Johnson for demonstrating this technique.

He fogged a little extra Purple around the edges for added depth.
From here you can top coat with Candy Apple,Pearl in Clear,etc.
I added some Prismatic sparkles to the clear coat.

This effect could be combined with Plastic Bagging,masking,
the possibilities are endless.And the price isn't too bad.

Palepainter October 20th, 2006 06:36 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Great tech!! I am wanting to do some guitars with that finish. The only thing that is keeping me from doing so is the amount of water needed to get the crystals off the surface. Wood and water don't work too well togher in the guitar industry.

Thanks for sharing the low cost tech.

Unkl Ian October 20th, 2006 07:16 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
If you sprayed on a few coats of clear first,to seal the wood,you'd be ok.

Unkl Ian October 21st, 2006 09:02 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Sprayed a little Green Candy Apple over the Yellow and Black test piece.



http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0082.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0085.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0088.jpg

I think that's around 3 coats.When it's dry,I'll add some more.

Steve October 21st, 2006 10:32 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Wow, Unk... this is a GREAT tech article. THANK YOU for this!! :bow:

lunatic_magnet October 23rd, 2006 11:29 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
i am SO doing this with flames.... :bow:

danechild October 23rd, 2006 01:43 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Maybe I missed it. Who is the manufacturer?

Unkl Ian October 25th, 2006 04:13 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Craft Crystals -- Miracle Coatings division of RKEM Inc Anaheim Calif 92806
(Try Michael's,near the big glass vases)

Crystal Creations -- Syndicate Sales,Kokomo, IN. 46901
(Look in "crafty" type stores)

There is also a similar product available at some Wallmart stores.
Don't have a name yet.
---------

Starting another experiment tonight.

Unkl Ian October 25th, 2006 04:28 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
No sign of Crystal Creations on the Syndicate Sales site:
http://www.syndicatesales.com/
They seem to cater to serious Florists,wholesale only.

Never did find the site for the guys in SoCal.:Idunno:

Unkl Ian October 25th, 2006 09:04 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
This weeks Crazy Crystals experiment,I left about 10cc of Craft Crystals solution in a medicine cup for a few days,to allow some of the solvents
to evaporate.The idea is to create a stronger mixture.

After a few days,crystals formed a thin ice like covering across
the top of the liquid.:smilespin: That's a good sign.

I applied some of the remaining liquid from the medicine cup
to a test panel,and left it to dry in still air.The solution set up
quicker,and made larger,coarser,crystals than it did straight
out of the bottle. :thumbsup:

lunatic_magnet October 26th, 2006 04:43 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
i found crystal creations in my local craft store. unfortunately it was the last bottle and i found out when i got home why... the squirter on the bottle is busted. i did try it out but didnt get any crystals to grow :(

Unkl Ian October 26th, 2006 11:20 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
That's ok,the sprayers get clogged anyway.

Just shake it up,pour it on,spread around,and wait.

MAKE SURE YOU SCUFF THE PANEL FIRST.
Otherwise,the stuff just beads up and you don't get the effect.

Unkl Ian November 3rd, 2006 01:06 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Xotic has a similar product,even more money than Alsa.
http://www.innate.com/Paint/Xotic/Crystals.htm

AND they have a Special Cleaning Solution.:wacko: :hmm:
I can only imagine the price tag.:blink: :hmm:

http://www.innate.com/images/Xotic/C...CrystalsBb.jpg

Unkl Ian November 3rd, 2006 04:50 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
This weeks Magic Crystal Experiment: Reverse Crystals on a diagonal.

Got some clear Plexiglas,stripped the protective paper off one side,
applied different widths of masking tape on a diagonal,then scuffed between the tapes with 120 grit.Peeled off the tape,then sprayed
the Magic Crystal solution on.

It looked like this when dry:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0106.jpg
The brown color is the protective paper on the other side.

Now dust on a few coats of grey primer,let dry,then rinse and scrub to remove the crystals.It will look like this:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0109.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0110.jpg

Could have used any color for the final coat,but I chose Krylon High Temperture Silver.A couple even coats will do.When dry,peel the protective paper off the other side,and it looks like this:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0118.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/DSCF0119.jpg

:thumbsup:

Ocirus November 20th, 2006 02:38 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
UM wow, good stuff.

Ray-Dean November 27th, 2006 05:55 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Well.... :panic:

The stuff I was using is no longer carried by the store I was getting it from. :panic:

I have found it on the net at several places, but I am still looking for a semi-local place to pick it up. And Unk, this is made to use on a verticle surface, so it doesn't run off. :thumbsup: When I get a new supplier located, I'll ty it out again. I also found that there are like three different companies that make this type of crystals.

Unkl Ian November 27th, 2006 07:00 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Here is the product that Ray-Dean found at a local Wallmart.
You might get lucky and find some:
http://www.directfloral.com/productd...ctID=453057477
It's an aerosol,dries quickly,and clings to vertical surfaces.

Ray-Dean November 27th, 2006 07:17 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
And it's only about $2.50 per can. Because it is degigned to be used on glass, it dries really quick, and it works good for getting an even look on the top and sides of something like.... Well I don't know, let's say a certin Volksrod pick-up. :tongue:

Unkl Ian November 29th, 2006 11:08 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
My sister found this crystal recipe somewhere:

4 TBS Epsom salts
1 cup stale beer
facial tissue

Mix salt and beer together in bowl until salt is partially disolved. Dip tissue into mixture and wipe it evenly over a glass window. While the window is still wet , pat a moist tissue over glass. as mixture dries crystals will begin to grow. Crystals will continue to grow up to 24 hrs.

Add colour to your crystals using a drop of food colouring to mixture.

Crystals can be washed off most windows with a cloth and warm water.

I havn't tried it yet,maybe someone here has some Epsom Salts on hand ?

Cobey December 8th, 2006 01:47 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Anyone have a chance to try the Crystal Frost spray Ray-Dean and Unkl mentioned? I wanted to see how the pattern came out.

Ray-Dean December 8th, 2006 01:50 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
I have used it, but I'm still working on the pattern

Cobey December 8th, 2006 01:55 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
I meant the "default" pattern one gets spraying it, as opposed to marking off and area in a pattern (skull, flames, etc) to spray the stuff on.

Ray-Dean December 8th, 2006 01:58 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
that's what I have been doing. I'm talking about the pattern of the chrystals. They will grow differently with the direction of the skuffing (of the paint) and the grit that is used to skuff it.

Cobey December 8th, 2006 05:26 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
oh! Sorry. I was thinking of spraying it on glass to see the pattern - no scuffing.

Ray-Dean December 9th, 2006 07:04 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
If they are sprayed with no skuffing, they will grow randomly. You can controle the pattern that they grow into by the skuff pattern and the grit used to skuff.

Unkl Ian January 11th, 2007 06:22 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Cleaning the panel after sanding makes a big differance.
If the panel isn't clean enough,or isn't scuffed enough,
the solution just beads up and doesn't form crystals as it dries.
I don't know how this stuff is supposed to work on plain glass.
Frosted glass wouldn't be a problem.

I think Alsa sells a "Special Cleaning Solution" made specifically for this.
Probably works well.No idea on the price.


You can also use Window Cleaner,or Tap Water(tm).:wink:
Just make sure the panel is dry before spraying the crystal solution.

vdubjim January 23rd, 2007 02:07 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
looks like the homie trick; like spraying the darker basecoat, drying, then another coat like red and then while wet smearing it with a walmart or similar bag, then clearing over it.

Flea January 23rd, 2007 04:22 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
not quite the same thing as the 'walmart' bag .. (or saran wrap crinkled up and pressed onto the wet paint) ...

Unkl Ian January 24th, 2007 10:17 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
I've done the Plastic Bag trick as well,a few different ways.
Gives a different effect.

The thickness of the plastic,the amount of extra plastic used,
and the amount of paint,all influence the pattern.

Works well with 1-Shot Pearls.

The crystal stuff gives a finer,more delicate,pattern.

cozee November 12th, 2008 12:27 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Just a note: To change the pattern randomly within a panel or area, use a heat gun to speed up the drying time. This will give yet another different look to the crystal pattern formation.

hammerhead November 13th, 2008 01:04 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
hey all, another company that makes this stuff is Alsa. These guys make all sorts of speciality coatings and paints. you can find them at your local automotive paint supplier. they have the crystal efect, marbleizer, candies, jumbo flakes, you name it. their crystal seems to be like the others listed here. shoot base color then pour over crystal soloution, let dry, then second color then wash off crystals then top coat. very effective. let air dry in a still room with low humidity gets best results. force drying inhibits growth of crystals. of course you can do the same thing with out the expense. ( but only if you have a small panel or small section to cover) use water then use carbon dioxide fire extinguisher on back side of panel to freeze water and have frost effect. you must use a faster reducer for the cold temp but sometimes this works. sometimes it dont. but if there is any air movement on the crystals or water the crystals wont form. here' another trick to try........spray first color. then using a "clean" straw wisk broom spread out the straw with your hand and shoot second color thru the straws. this leaves a nice effect. if you dont want to do it that way ........spray first color, then use an intercoat clear and let dry. (this seals first color) then spray a wet coat of second color. use wisk broom to "brush" thru the second color while it's still wet ( wet but not running ). let flash over then top coat.

Heavy77 January 2nd, 2009 06:28 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
:stupid:

lunatic_magnet June 4th, 2009 03:48 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
i just painted the tank on my bike using this method... semi gloss black over metallic silver... :dancing::dancing::dancing::dancing:


http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...08_5733544.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._8310731_n.jpg

Unkl Ian June 4th, 2009 08:05 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
That looks sharp:dancing::bow::clapping: :thumbsup:.

A nice gloss clear will make it even better.

bulletz June 10th, 2009 12:58 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Nice finish on the tank. What are you using to scuff before applying??

lunatic_magnet June 10th, 2009 03:19 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
i just used the same thing i sanded the primer with, i wanna say 200 grit sandpaper. :Idunno:
i havent done the fenders yet, probably early next week before i get to them. tank looks good on the bike though.

Unkl Ian June 10th, 2009 06:51 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
I always used something relatively coarse, but it
would be worth experimenting with something a little finer.

Too fine, and the liquid will bead up, and not form crystals.

Maybe use two different grits ?

mazdawg78 January 24th, 2010 08:45 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
also found this. i cat post a new topic so here it is
http://www.markmcguigan.com/2007/08/09/swirl/

Unkl Ian January 25th, 2010 05:12 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
Excellent, thanks.

ClassicGMJunkie March 15th, 2010 11:12 AM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
I found a spray can (small) of an ice crystal creator, will be experimenting with it soon. there were about 5 more cans on the shelf left over from the christmas season... will go get them if this does well.... pics soon!

ClassicGMJunkie March 27th, 2010 05:51 PM

Re: Paint How To: Magic Crystals
 
well i tried it out. "Santa" ice crystal spray. takes eons for it to crystalize, went on way too thick, very small pattern. like a super cold morning kinda frost. genuine looking yet not good enough for a liquid mask effect.....


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