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Old February 3rd, 2017, 05:41 PM   #1
d3ghia
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Default O/T - Completely stumped
Re:: Hydraulic clutch   

OK, need some help -

A friend and I have been working diligently to fix his wife's car - and tried everything that we can think of - still not working.

First Issue: Clutch went out (something in the entire clutch system). So, we replaced the clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, slave clutch cylinder, master clutch cylinder (basically everything).

Current Issue: We are only able to bleed the system enough to have just a smidge of clutch. The clutch engages about 1/8 of an inch above the carpet - and that is the clutch pedal adjusted all the way out.

Information: 2005 Scion tc. We bled it normally, pump the pedal, open valve, bubbles come out, close valve, repeat. No more bubbles, but no clutch.

So, we bled it with the slave cylinder all the way open - so it's piston did not affect everything. Same procedure. Slight improvement. (no clutch to about 1/16 of an inch)

We then used a power bleeder - that sucked an entire bottle through from master reservoir - bubbles never stopped coming out - but did decrease in amount. That got us to the 1/8. So, what am I missing?

Could not detect any leaks in the system - anywhere.
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Don't be Fucking stupid.

The bolt is Fucked, it won't fix it's self,
the Bolt Fairy won't fix it, and you can't fix it.


I know there is a Full Moon, but quit Fucking around.
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Old February 3rd, 2017, 07:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

Hmmm, I'd guess you could have gotten a bad cylinder

Where'd you get the parts?


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Old February 4th, 2017, 01:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

The rubber flex line might be the culprit. My son had the same issue with his GTI and had to change out the combo hard/flex line that goes between the M/C and Slave cyl. to get pedal travel.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 06:47 AM   #4
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

My first thought is that I hope you have an OEM master. I have had brand new failures from NAPA, AutoZone, and Advanced.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 12:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

Maybe the system needed to be bench bled before installation?
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Old February 5th, 2017, 11:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

All good ideas gentlemen - going to check a couple more things - hopefully we can find it, and it will be something simple.
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Originally Posted by Unkl Ian View Post
Don't be Fucking stupid.

The bolt is Fucked, it won't fix it's self,
the Bolt Fairy won't fix it, and you can't fix it.


I know there is a Full Moon, but quit Fucking around.
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Old February 6th, 2017, 07:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

I'm not sure on the vehicle you are referring to, so does it have an external or internal slave cylinder?

The reason I ask is that many late 80's/early 90's ford trucks with an external slave was actually mounted so the blender was below fluid level. In order to properly bread them, you un-mounted the slave cylinder, turned it vertical, bread the system, then installed it. On the 4x4's you had to use a come-along to pull the clutch arm back far enough to install it. Take about a bitch...

And yes, Ford had a prescribed way of doing it, but i never saw it work in my 19 years in the business.
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Old February 8th, 2017, 01:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

I'm not much help either, but a buddy brought his Subaru by one day so I could help him bleed the already functioning clutch slave. He just wanted to make sure all the air was out. The longer we messed with it the worse it got until the clutch slave didn't work at all. It left here on a flatbed. And I've bled plenty of brakes and clutches in the past. It was baffling and I'm still not sure what he ended up doing, but it took lots of forum searching and asking Subaru experts. It all seemed so simple too...
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Old February 8th, 2017, 02:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

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Originally Posted by Ray-Dean View Post
In order to properly bread them, you un-mounted the slave cylinder, turned it vertical, bread the system, then installed it.
We will try again this weekend, the bleeder valve is lower than the reservoir, and has quite a few bends and elevation changes. That is why we tried the "pressure bleeder" which just blew tons of bubbles.

(This one does have an external slave ('05 Scion tc))


Quote:
Originally Posted by mkparker View Post
I'm not much help either, but a buddy brought his Subaru by one day so I could help him bleed the already functioning clutch slave. He just wanted to make sure all the air was out. The longer we messed with it the worse it got until the clutch slave didn't work at all. It left here on a flatbed. And I've bled plenty of brakes and clutches in the past. It was baffling and I'm still not sure what he ended up doing, but it took lots of forum searching and asking Subaru experts. It all seemed so simple too...
Right?

I had just finished changing out an internal slave cylinder on a '10 Kia - and that went fine. This is why, once we do figure it out - I WILL post it here - so I can look it up later after I forget what we did....
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Originally Posted by Unkl Ian View Post
Don't be Fucking stupid.

The bolt is Fucked, it won't fix it's self,
the Bolt Fairy won't fix it, and you can't fix it.


I know there is a Full Moon, but quit Fucking around.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 08:20 AM   #10
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

Disc in backwards ?
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Old February 9th, 2017, 09:02 AM   #11
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

^ Hmmm. If the disc were in backwards, the springs might contact the bolts holding the flywheel in place, which would not allow the disc to properly disengage. I saw this a veeery long time ago when friend replaced the clutch disc of his '40 Ford coupe. Linkage wasn't a factor as it was a simple mechanical type.
The bubbles in the line tell me that somehow the bleeding of the system isn't working. I know, just brilliant. But, last year I had something similar going on with the rear disc brake of my Cafe Sportster. I'd rebuilt the stock master cylinder, which operates a Yamaha rear caliper on the Kawasaki rear wheel's disc (Nope, no quiz later). In the middle of this is a 'T' fitting with the brake light switch. I kept getting bubbles until I replaced the switch...though there was no trace of leaking fluid at the switch or connection. After several more bleedings from both directions, all is well. I guess that sometimes utilizing the 'definition of insanity' can actually work.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 03:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

Have you looked at this it may be relevant - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_qQOAs4iBw

and

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/scio...solved-164619/

"it was the master cylinder. on the work order from toyotait noted " master cylinder failed, no internal pressure." "

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Old February 9th, 2017, 07:40 PM   #13
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

Thanks all of you - helpful and insightful. Will know more this weekend hopefully.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unkl Ian View Post
Don't be Fucking stupid.

The bolt is Fucked, it won't fix it's self,
the Bolt Fairy won't fix it, and you can't fix it.


I know there is a Full Moon, but quit Fucking around.
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Old February 10th, 2017, 06:58 AM   #14
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

had this problem in a dodge a little while back. the master fit to the wall, but was on a 45 degree angle pointing down - made it impossible to bleed the master with it in the car, as the air was trapped in the top half of it and would not bleed out. had to remove the entire assembly and bleed it as one unit before re-installing.

no idea if that's the situation here, but maybe it could help.
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Old February 11th, 2017, 06:54 PM   #15
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

Are you bleeding it on level ground or is the suspension jacking the car forward or back? Sometimes it's those damn little things that do it.
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Old February 12th, 2017, 05:31 AM   #16
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

Quote:
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Are you bleeding it on level ground or is the suspension jacking the car forward or back? Sometimes it's those damn little things that do it.
Jeff
Was wondering the same thing. Try jacking up the rear to get the slave cylinder a lot higher than the master. Air can be a pain to get out.
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Old February 13th, 2017, 10:09 AM   #17
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

That sounds like a similar situation like I had years ago on an 87 Jeep Comanche, it had a hydraulic throw out bearing, I had a hell of a time bleeding it because the bleeder valve was about a 1/2" higher than the bearing, I jacked the left side of the truck up to bleed it

The reason I suggested bad parts is only because I always seen the be one of the few people who ends up with the alternator that doesn't work, or the steering rack that wasn't assemble so the steering shafts was centered once everything was put together, I seem to always get those parts


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Old March 25th, 2017, 09:46 AM   #18
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

Yeah! And I'm running out of popcorn and sodas.
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Old March 27th, 2017, 10:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: O/T - Completely stumped

Quote:
Originally Posted by whozawhat View Post
What was the outcome of this problem??

I damn near chewed off all my finger nails in anticipation
Right? We are still waiting as well! It is together well enough to drive - just have to be delicate with the clutch - but his wife has three other cars to drive in the meantime because...

My friend decided that he wanted to put his bug back together - and that is a higher priority. He had split the pan/body and gotten rid of everything but the pan and body. He was going to sell all of it - then decided he couldn't (they got married in that car)...

Sooo...... we welded in new floors, designed and built an air suspension, rebuilt brakes and fuel system, transmission, wiring, dynomat, basically built a new car. Motor, carpet and shakedown is all that is left. Honing cylinders now and should have motor back together by Thursday. We didn't stop long enough to take photos - we have barely have time to get it all done before a big show in April.

We have been working on that for a month - then back to his wife's '66 Mustang - THEN we may find out what caused all of this sometime around July....LOL!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unkl Ian View Post
Don't be Fucking stupid.

The bolt is Fucked, it won't fix it's self,
the Bolt Fairy won't fix it, and you can't fix it.


I know there is a Full Moon, but quit Fucking around.
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