Front end alignment basics - Cut-Weld-Drive Forums

**Unkl Ian** · September 25th, 2009, 07:28 AM

Aimed towards the karting crowd, the basics apply to any car.

Caster

Camber

Toe

Ackerman

**Unkl Ian** · September 25th, 2009, 07:35 AM

The Ackerman page compares "Positive Ackerman", and "Zero Ackerman".

With Positive Ackerman, the inside wheel turns tighter than the outside. That is the way 99.99% of cars were made.
Makes sense, since the inside radius of a turn is tighter than the outside.

Reverse Ackerman, AKA Anti-Ackerman, creates the opposite effect, the inside tire turns less than the outside.
That is what happens when " rear steer" spindles are mounted backwards. The inside tire wants to go straighter than the outside, so the car will "push" in a turn. Commonly seen on poorly thought out Rat Rods.

PJLOval · September 25th, 2009, 08:05 AM

Nice visuals

walt · September 25th, 2009, 08:06 AM

Those are very cool examples of suspension and steering geometry.

Volksrod19666 · September 25th, 2009, 08:27 AM

perfect timing for this post, now i dont have to create one.

i was gonna try and align my vrod today, my passenger wheel is toed out about 1 1/2" compared to my nice and straight driver side wheel. Everything was fine and straight, i took it all apart and welded in my adjusters, now the alignment is way off. whats the suggestion for fixing this?

mkparker · September 25th, 2009, 10:21 AM

Make sure nothing is upside down.....

Volksrod19666 · September 25th, 2009, 11:55 AM

i dont believe anything is, but its worth a look. wouldnt be the first thing i was wrong about on this car.

PJLOval · September 25th, 2009, 01:05 PM

What type of adjusters did you weld in? If they are the non-Avis type that require you to cut out a section of the beam then my guess is you cut out too little and that side of the beam is a bit too long. The steering box is always located in a set position for the driver's side so any change in length would show on the passenger side. I'm also assuming you didn't narrow the beam either. It wouldn't take much to be way off at the leading edge of the tire like that. If everything is mounted correctly, just adjust that tie rod and get it back in line.

rostigbug · September 25th, 2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJLOval

What type of adjusters did you weld in? If they are the non-Avis type that require you to cut out a section of the beam then my guess is you cut out too little and that side of the beam is a bit too long. The steering box is always located in a set position for the driver's side so any change in length would show on the passenger side. I'm also assuming you didn't narrow the beam either. It wouldn't take much to be way off at the leading edge of the tire like that. If everything is mounted correctly, just adjust that tie rod and get it back in line.

All super good points PJLO!!!
Lemme also chime in I suggest that the measurement is inaccurate. Perhaps it is not as far out as we think. Maybe it just needs to be more carefully measured.

mkparker · September 25th, 2009, 02:53 PM

Good point Fish! And thanks for the link Unkl!!

Volksrod19666 · September 25th, 2009, 04:05 PM

it was the cut and weld sway a ways i think there called, the measurements were done very carefully, but i think something may have gotten out of wack during dissasembly of the beam. and i never adjusted the tie rods after i put it all back, thats still something i'm reading over as we speak and getting the details so i do it right.
i checked and everything is right side up at least as far as i know, i'm gonna find the camera and go take a pic. the tires are kinda like

l..../

and i know that cant be good.

Volksrod19666 · September 25th, 2009, 04:28 PM

ok so here we go, first we have straight on lookin at it, then one of the driver side compared to the passenger side.

hope those help out, i'm pretty sure adjusting the tire rod should pull it in, and yes i know i need ball joints all the way around, maybe in a paycheck or 2, right now i'm tapped out.
in order to adjust the tie rod, do i have to pop it loose from the spindle and turn the threaded rod end, or pop it off the steering box and turn that piece?
sorry to throw a dumbass question like that out there, but its the one thing i cant get any exact clarity on. and i would prefer to do this right with the least possible ouch, fucks, damnits and other such things.

mkparker · September 25th, 2009, 05:20 PM

You don't pop either end off. The tierods ends have opposite threads, so turn one way and both ends screw out (longer), turn the other way and both ends screw in (shorter). Just loosen the collars or lock nuts that hold the tierods tight and turn the rod, may require a big pair of channel locks or monkey wrench.

Your passenger side tierod needs to be adjusted so it's longer. Make sure you have quite few threads inside the tierod to maintain strength.

Volksrod19666 · September 25th, 2009, 05:59 PM

cool, thanks man. its already dark here so i'll get it taken care of first thing in the morning. its too bad i didnt know you or this site when i lived in mckinney.

mkparker · September 26th, 2009, 05:20 AM

Yeah man, you were close! Try doin' some adjusting on yours and let us know that goes.

Volksrod19666 · September 26th, 2009, 09:26 AM

all good brothas...it turned out that tie rod was slightly bent right before it connected to the steering box, that fixed half the prob, the rest i adjusted and its all bueno now, drives 10 times better, no more skittering around corners at only 5 miles per hour, it brakes nice and smooth, plus i wont be killing my tires now. thanks for the help again guys.

rostigbug · September 26th, 2009, 01:46 PM

U gottum heap photos?

PJLOval · September 26th, 2009, 01:56 PM

Hey, I just remembered that if you unbolted the control arms from the steering knuckle you may have rotated the camber adjustment eccentric on the upper control arm. That can make a big difference if it put the top of the tire out. Glad to hear you have it working for you.

Volksrod19666 · September 26th, 2009, 05:30 PM

it was 100% the passenger tie rod, i stepped on it and bent it back straight were i guess i curved it taking it apart, then gave it about 6 turns and it pushed the wheel perfectly inline. i measured everything twice to make sure and tightened it all back up. quick and easy like it should be, glad i have this place for all my random questions and dumbass mistakes.